Zoom AI Meeting summary for Edwin Rutsch's Personal Meeting Room (05/09/2025)
Quick recap
Edwin and Jodie discussed their involvement in various empathy-related projects and events, and the limitations of the affective and cognitive empathy model. They explored the concept of empathy, particularly focusing on the distinction between direct and imaginative empathy, and the potential for a higher form of empathy. The conversation also touched on the challenges of navigating family dynamics, the use of AI tools in research, and the importance of empathy in understanding others' experiences.
Next steps
• Jodie to facilitate an empathy circle at 7:00 PM Pacific time during the upcoming empathy summit.
• Edwin to deliver a keynote speech at 8:30 AM during the empathy summit, discussing the definition project.
• Edwin to continue developing the holistic empathy model and its comparison to the affective-cognitive empathy model for his presentation.
• Jodie to prepare and deliver a presentation for Daryl Cameron's lab on empathy and moral decision-making.
• Jodie to incorporate the holistic empathy model from the defining empathy website into her presentation for Daryl Cameron's lab, if time allows.
• Jodie to confirm the exact time her children get out of school on the last day and inform Edwin if they need to adjust their next meeting time.
• Edwin to send Jodie the URL for the empathy summit once he has it.
Summary
Empathy Projects and Event Updates
Edwin and Jodie discussed their involvement in various empathy-related projects and events. Edwin mentioned a conference scheduled for May 24th, which Jodie expressed interest in attending. Jodie also shared her busy schedule, including another empathy conference, a presentation, and her son's graduation. They discussed the challenges of online events compared to in-person ones. Lastly, they touched upon the cancellation of a university event due to political issues.
Empathy Model Limitations and Shifts
Edwin discussed the limitations of the affective and cognitive empathy model, highlighting inconsistencies in its definition and the dualistic mindset it is based on. Jodie agreed with these points, noting the confusion in the academic community regarding the terms. Edwin also mentioned the shift in support towards a more holistic view of empathy, as exemplified by the work of Marco Iacoboni.
Edwin's Holistic Empathy Model Discussion
Edwin discussed his work on the holistic empathy model, focusing on its unique features and practicality. He shared his systematic review of the definition of cognitive empathy, using various chat engines and AI tools. Jodie expressed her appreciation for Edwin's work, emphasizing the importance of making the model accessible and understandable. They both acknowledged the challenges of working with the dominant cognitive empathy model.
Empathy: Direct, Imaginative, and Holistic Approaches
Edwin and Jodie discussed the concept of empathy, particularly focusing on the distinction between direct and imaginative empathy. They explored the idea of a holistic approach to empathy, which involves fully present listening and sensing into someone's experience. They also touched on the developmental stages of empathy and the potential for a higher form of empathy that most people never reach. The conversation also highlighted the importance of active listening and the potential for using empathy in various interactions, including with children.
Empathy Circles Resolve Child Conflicts
Edwin shared his experience of using empathy circles to resolve conflicts between his niece and nephew. He explained how he facilitated the process by reflecting back their emotions and helping them understand each other's perspectives. Jodie found this approach insightful and suggested that it could help children access their prefrontal cortex and make sense of their emotions. The discussion ended with Jodie expressing her interest in implementing this method with her own children.
Navigating Family Dynamics With Empathy
Edwin and Jodie discussed the challenges of navigating family dynamics, particularly in situations where children are exposed to different parenting styles. They explored the concept of empathy circles as a structured approach to fostering empathy and resolving conflicts. Jodie expressed concerns about the balance between structure and empathy, while Edwin emphasized the importance of setting boundaries and promoting mutual empathy. They also touched on the idea of meta-empathy, where a facilitator notices the overall level of empathy in a group. The conversation concluded with a discussion on the importance of drawing boundaries in relationships where mutual empathy is not possible.
Qualitative Research and AI Tools
Jodie plans to seek IRB approval for her research project, which includes interviews with Edwin and others. If approved, she will need participants to fill out a consent form. Jodie's research is qualitative, analyzing interviews and conversations to identify themes. She uses AI tools to help with this process, but notes that AI can sometimes "hallucinate" or make up information. Edwin suggests using multiple AI platforms to check each other's work. They discuss the potential of AI in creating visual models of emotional interactions, which could help explain complex concepts like empathy and emotional contagion.
Exploring Empathy and Emotional Contagion
In the meeting, Jodie and Edwin discussed the concept of empathy, particularly focusing on the distinction between imaginative and cognitive empathy. They explored the idea of creating a mental map of a person's inner world and the role of imagination in this process. They also touched upon the concept of emotional contagion and the importance of empathy in understanding others' experiences. Jodie mentioned her upcoming presentation in Daryl Cameron's lab, where she plans to discuss empathy and moral decision-making, and she expressed her intention to incorporate some of her personal experiences into the presentation. The conversation ended with Jodie expressing her stress about creating a curriculum for a sports camp.
2025-05-09 - Otter Defining Empathy
https://otter.ai/u/U3uBegyfAshGcqFRqwBbOPds4VM?view=summary
Edwin Rutsch and Jodie Jenson discussed the upcoming Empathy Summit, including a keynote by Edwin on the affective-cognitive empathy model and a facilitated empathy circle. They expected 40 attendees due to time zone differences. Jodie shared her busy schedule, including presenting in Daryl Cameron's lab and her son's sixth-grade graduation. They explored the dualistic mindset in empathy models and the limitations of affective-cognitive empathy. Edwin emphasized the importance of holistic empathy and shared examples of using empathy circles with children. They also discussed potential AI applications for visualizing and mapping empathy models.
[ ] Provide the schedule and Google Doc link for the empathy summit to Jodie Jenson.
[ ] Confirm Jodie Jenson as a facilitator for the empathy circle at the summit.
[ ] Explore the use of AI to help visualize and analyze the cognitive-affective empathy model in relation to the holistic empathy model.
[ ] Prepare for Jodie Jenson's presentation in Daryl Cameron's lab, incorporating her personal experiences and discussing the definition issues and underlying philosophies of empathy research.
Edwin Rutsch discusses the empathy summit and various projects being worked on, including a conference on the 24th.
Edwin mentions the registration fee for the conference and offers free attendance to some people.
Jodie Jenson confirms the event is all-day and asks about her role as a facilitator.
Edwin provides the schedule for the summit, including his keynote at 8:30 AM and an empathy circle at 7:00 PM.
Edwin explains his keynote will cover the definition project and last half an hour.
The empathy circle at 7:00 PM will involve facilitators and breakout rooms for attendees.
Jodie confirms her availability to facilitate and attend Edwin's keynote.
Edwin mentions the expected attendance of 40 people due to time zone differences.
Jodie outlines her busy week, including another empathy conference, presenting in Daryl's lab, and her son's sixth-grade graduation.
Jodie describes the stress and challenges of maintaining empathy and kindness amidst a hectic schedule.
Edwin shares a story about a conference in Prague being canceled due to political unrest.
Jodie and Edwin discuss the limitations of online conferences compared to in-person events.
Edwin plans to discuss the affective-cognitive empathy model and how it compares to the holistic empathy model.
Jodie and Edwin discuss the dualistic mindset and its limitations in the affective-cognitive model.
Edwin mentions the work of neuroscientist Marco Iacoboni and his book "Mirroring People."
Jodie and Edwin explore the overlap and differences between affective and cognitive empathy.
Edwin explains the holistic empathy model and its focus on listening and reflecting the whole person.
Jodie and Edwin discuss the role of imagination in empathy and its potential inaccuracies.
Edwin shares examples of using empathy circles with children to help them understand each other's perspectives.
Jodie and Edwin explore the developmental stages of empathy and the importance of holistic empathy.
Edwin shares a story about using empathy circles to resolve a conflict between his nephews and niece.
Jodie discusses the importance of empathy in helping children develop moral reasoning and empathy.
Edwin explains the structure of empathy circles and their effectiveness in resolving conflicts.
Jodie and Edwin discuss the challenges of implementing empathy circles in authoritarian households.
Edwin explores using AI to create visualizations of empathy models and interactions.
Jodie suggests using multiple AI platforms to cross-check and validate the accuracy of generated content.
Edwin and Jodie discuss the potential of AI to help visualize and understand complex empathy models.
Jodie shares her experience with coding qualitative interviews and the benefits of using AI for data analysis.
Jodie plans to seek IRB approval for her research and includes Edwin's interviews in her project.
Edwin and Jodie discuss the structure and goals of Jodie's upcoming presentation in Daryl Cameron's lab.
Jodie outlines her presentation topics, including empathy, moral development, and philosophical perspectives.
Edwin and Jodie plan to discuss the holistic empathy model and its application in various contexts.
Jodie requests to move their meeting to an earlier time due to her children's school schedule.
Edwin and Jodie agree to meet at the same time next week unless Jodie provides a different time.
Edwin asks Jodie to think about how to map the cognitive-affective empathy model onto the holistic model.
Jodie plans to review the defining empathy website and prepare for her presentation and curriculum development.
How can we best integrate the cognitive-affective empathy model with the holistic empathy model in our research and presentations?
To integrate the cognitive-affective empathy model with the holistic empathy model,
focus on highlighting the interconnectedness of cognitive and affective aspects of empathy. Emphasize that thinking and feeling are not separate, but deeply intertwined.
Use visual diagrams to show how different elements of empathy interact, and demonstrate how the holistic model provides a more comprehensive understanding by moving beyond the dualistic mindset.
Highlight how the holistic approach captures the nuanced, integrated nature of empathic experience, showing how cognitive understanding and emotional sensing work together seamlessly in genuine empathic interactions.
Give me a list of questions to ask
Here are some key questions to explore when integrating the cognitive-affective and holistic empathy models:
How do cognitive and emotional processes interact during empathic experiences?
What limitations does the current cognitive-affective model have in understanding empathy?
How does the holistic empathy model provide a more comprehensive view of empathic interactions?
Can we identify specific moments where cognitive understanding and emotional sensing overlap?
What developmental stages exist in moving from a fragmented to a more integrated empathy approach?
How do different contexts (personal, professional, cultural) impact empathic experiences?
What role does imagination play in bridging cognitive and emotional aspects of empathy?
How can we create more accessible language to describe empathy beyond academic terminology?
What neuroscientific evidence supports a more integrated model of empathy?
How might the holistic empathy model improve interpersonal understanding and conflict resolution?
These questions can help guide research, presentations, and deeper exploration of empathy as a complex, multifaceted human experience.
Action Items for adding to Definition Presentation
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Meeting Agenda Template
( ) Turn on Recording
( ) Turn on Zoom AI
( ) Vision and Intention: Build the Empathy Movement to make mutual empathy a core cultural value.
( ) Intention for the Definition Study Team: Develop and document the Wholistic Empathy Definition Model
This Meeting
( ) Taking part in the training
( ) The Cognitive-Affective-Concern Empathy Model
( ) Explain the core model
( ) See how AI can help
( ) How does it fit into the Wholistic model
( ) How does it fit into the empathy circle
( ) Create some slides for the Definitions Presentation.
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Post Meeting
( ) Document Meeting
( ) Post Zoom AI Report
( ) Upload Video to Otter.AI, create transcript and Summary, post to this page.
( ) Upload Video to YouTube