2025-03-15 - Meeting  Agenda

1. ( ) Turn on Recording

2. ( ) Turn on  Zoom AI

3. ( ) Intention: Build the Empathy Movement to make mutual empathy a core cultural value

4. ( ) Vision for the Definition Study Team

5. ( )  Introductions - Why are you Interested in Defining Empathy?

   1. Edwin -

   2. Janna - 

      1. Words are similar and the same

      2. Concerned that the definition is to narrow

      3. What is not empathy

      4. Definition: relational empathy

      5. What are the different types or aspects 

         1. Self empathy

         2. Relational empathy -  Defining relational empathy - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xgL5Ey5Ea4&list=PLQSamR1mhd5kYOPQZK3N00DHkPESKNWy1&index=4 

         3. Mutual empathy

         4. 
            

   3. Daniel -

      1. Need directionality. A direction we haven’t adequately explored

      2. Empathy has a moment - it is a container that humanity can open up

      3. Feel the empathy unified field.. It’s not individual 

      4. Definition: the felt sense of relationship

         1. Self - inclusive to self and 

         2. Empathy points to the inclusive center.

         3. What is not empathy - empaths taking on others feelings

Edwin will share parts of the Wholistic Empathy model
      Review and Feedback on the Slideshow.

Action Items

1. ( ) copy Recording to Otter.ai

2. ( ) Upload video to YouTube

3. ( )  Otter.ai Summary - post here

4. ( ) Zoom AI - post here

5. 
   

Meeting summary for Edwin Rutsch's Personal Meeting Room (03/15/2025) 

Quick recap 

The team discussed the concept of empathy, its relation to love and compassion, and its potential to bring about positive change in humanity. They explored different perspectives on empathy, including direct and imaginative empathy, and considered strategies for promoting empathy in the current political climate. The group also discussed the need for a clear and practical definition of empathy, the importance of empathy in human development, and the potential of using the Empathy Circle as a tool to teach and explain empathy. 

Next steps 

• Edwin: Refine and simplify the definition of empathy in the presentation slides, particularly clarifying or removing the "imaginative empathy" component based on feedback 

• Edwin: Create educational materials and documentation about empathy definition that can effectively counter criticism from empathy detractors 

• Edwin: Follow up with Susan Lanzoni regarding potential collaboration on her book proposal about empathy definitions 

• Edwin: Follow up with Jamil Zaki and the Constructive Dialogue Institute team for potential collaboration 

• Edwin: Create a glossary mapping related terms to the empathy circle framework 

• Edwin: Review and transcribe Janna's 6-minute video clip about relational empathy definitions 

• Edwin: Transform the current presentation into a workshop format for teaching empathy definition 

• Edwin: Refine and expand the holistic empathy definition presentation for the upcoming Global Empathy Conference in Santa Cruz 

• Edwin: Prepare and deliver a 2-hour empathy circle demonstration at the Global Empathy Conference 

• Edwin: Continue developing materials to create a book on defining empathy, potentially collaborating with Susan Lanzoni 

• Edwin: Organize and launch a series of empathy summits focused on building the empathy movement in August and November 

• Edwin: Continue reaching out to the author of "Toxic Empathy" for potential dialogue 

• Violeta: Consider conducting and documenting family empathy circles with teenagers for potential presentation at future empathy summits 

Summary 

Addressed Violetta's definition of all empathy being imaginative. 

Defining Empathy for Cultural Change 

In the meeting, Edwin, Janna, and Daniel discussed their interest in the empathy project. 

• Edwin, who has been working on the project for 15 years, expressed his desire to clarify the definition of empathy and make it a core cultural value. 

• Janna shared her thoughts on the difficulty of defining empathy and its relation to love and compassion. 

• Daniel, who found the topic fresh, expressed his interest in the project as a means to explore the interrelational data between humans and to access the unified field of empathy. The team agreed on the importance of defining empathy and its potential to bring about a positive change in humanity. 

Exploring Empathy in Human Development 

In the meeting, the participants discussed various aspects of empathy. Janna defined relational empathy as the intention of kindness, compassion, and genuine concern for all that she exists in relation to. Daniel defined empathy as the felt sense of relational energy, which can be self or other-directed, and it is inclusive. He also clarified that empathy does not involve taking on others' emotions or trauma. The group also discussed the importance of empathy in human development and the need to explore different types of empathy. 

Defining Empathy in Empathy Circles 

Edwin proposes using the Empathy Circle as a concrete framework to define and map different qualities of empathy. He wants to focus on developing a clear definition and documentation of empathy in the context of Empathy Circles this year, including creating presentations, articles, workshops and potentially a book on the topic. Daniel cautions against expanding the definition too broadly, suggesting instead to focus on the core relational aspect and "empathetic field" that develops between people engaging empathetically. Janna mentions a definition of love from Barbara Fredrickson that may be relevant to the discussion. 

Empathy and Love in Conflict Resolution 

In the meeting, Janna and Edwin discussed the concept of empathy and its relation to love. They explored how empathy circles can create micro moments of positivity and resonance, which can be seen as a form of love. They also discussed the importance of defining empathy and its role in building an empathy movement. Daniel suggested that empathy should not be conditional on others being empathetic, and Janna agreed. The group also touched on the idea of a Congressional briefing on empathy and conflict resolution. 

Defining Empathy for Practical Use 

The group discusses the need for a clear and practical definition of empathy, as there is confusion caused by various books criticizing empathy and academic definitions that are abstract and difficult to understand. Edwin suggests creating a framework to systematically address criticisms and map different perspectives onto a holistic empathy model. The group agrees on the importance of simplifying the concept of empathy to make it more accessible and practical for people to use in their daily lives, potentially incorporating the idea of empathic listening. 

Defining Empathy and Holistic Model 

The group discusses the definition of empathy and how to articulate it clearly. Edwin presents his "holistic empathy" model as a starting point, aiming to create materials like articles and possibly a book. They explore related concepts like compassion, love, and kindness, considering how these terms might be perceived differently. Daniel shares his experience with empathy circles and reflective listening as practical applications of empathy. Violeta, a psychologist with research experience in empathy across cultures, joins the conversation. The group plans to refine the definition and potentially collaborate with other researchers in the field. 

Imaginative Empathy in Autism Assessment 

Violeta discusses her work in psychological assessment, particularly autism assessment, and expresses her passion for imaginative empathy. She suggests that imaginative empathy is fundamental to understanding others and should be considered the core of basic empathy, rather than a separate concept. Violeta emphasizes that imagination in this context involves a felt experience, not just mental imagery. Daniel adds that empathy is directional and transcends strict definitions of cognitive and affective processes, leading to a deeper sense of connection among participants in empathy circles. 

Defining Empathy in Political Context 

The group discusses different perspectives on empathy, particularly focusing on the distinction between direct and imaginative empathy. Edwin shares insights from a talk by phenomenologist Dan Zahavi, who considers only direct empathy as true empathy. Violeta suggests that the difference lies in how imagination is defined, emphasizing that her view of imaginative empathy involves a felt experience. The group also discusses the challenges of defining empathy in the current political climate and considers strategies for promoting empathy, including simplifying the concept or reframing it as active listening. They debate whether to defend the term "empathy" against criticism or potentially use alternative language to convey the concept. 

Defining Empathy and Its Applications 

In the meeting, VioletaCone, Edwin, and Janna discussed the concept of empathy and its definition. They considered partnering with an academic who is trained and has done extensive research on empathy to define it. They also discussed the idea of using the empathy circle as a tool to teach and explain empathy. The group agreed that the definition of empathy should be rooted in Rogers' work. They also discussed the potential of using the empathy circle to bring together stakeholders with differing perspectives, such as conservatives and immigrants, to foster mutual understanding and empathy. The group also discussed the possibility of presenting at the upcoming Global Empathy Conference. 

AI-generated content may be inaccurate or misleading. Always check for accuracy. 

2025-03-15 - Sat Defining Empathy

Transcript

https://otter.ai/u/SF5q7oRMKZSwwN7hibpQI3kH8c0?view=transcript

The meeting focused on defining empathy and its role in building an empathy movement. Edwin Rutsch emphasized the need for a clear, practical definition to counteract confusion from recent books criticizing empathy. Participants discussed the importance of relational empathy and the role of imaginative empathy in understanding others. Daniel Hirtz highlighted the transformative power of empathy circles in fostering deeper connections. Violetta suggested simplifying the definition to avoid confusion and emphasized the need for a clear, communicable message. The group agreed on the importance of addressing criticisms of empathy and promoting empathy as a core cultural value. The discussion centered on the definition and practical application of empathy, emphasizing the role of imagination and the influence of social psychologists like Adam Grant and Jonathan Haidt. Edwin Rutsch and Speaker 5 debated the effectiveness of reaching out to figures like Jamal Zaki, who has been elusive and somewhat elitist. They agreed on the importance of Rogers' definition of empathy and the practicality of empathy circles. The conversation also touched on the need for inclusivity in empathy, the challenges of academic elitism, and the potential for collaboration with organizations like the Constructive Dialog Institute. Future plans include presenting at global empathy conferences and building a broader empathy movement.

Action Items

• [ ] Review and transcribe a previous video clip on relational empathy.

• [ ] Reach out to authors of books criticizing empathy (e.g. "Against Empathy", "Suicidal Empathy") to have a dialogue and understand their perspectives.

• [ ] Explore collaborating with the "Constructive Dialogue Institute" that is working to bridge divides through empathy-based approaches.

• [ ] Consider presenting on the family experience of empathy circles at the upcoming empathy summit.

Outline

Defining Empathy Project Introduction

• Edwin Rutsch discusses the purpose of the meeting, which is to set up the structure for the defining empathy project.

• The project aims to build the empathy movement and make mutual empathy a core cultural value.

• Edwin mentions the confusion in current definitions of empathy and the need for clarity.

• Jenna and Speaker 2 discuss their interest in the definition project and their previous work on defining empathy.

Participants' Interests and Definitions

• Daniel Hirtz expresses his interest in empathy as a directional force that points to interrelational data.

• Daniel believes empathy has a magnetic nature that captures sentiments and opens up deeper levels of wisdom.

• Edwin reflects on Daniel's point, suggesting that empathy supports an unfolding of humanity.

• Jenna and Daniel discuss the importance of defining what is not empathy, such as trauma resonance.

Exploring Different Types of Empathy

• Jenna lists different types of empathy: self-empathy, relational empathy, holistic empathy, mutual empathy, and more.

• Edwin asks Jenna which type of empathy is most meaningful to her, and she mentions relational empathy.

• Daniel emphasizes the importance of empathy as a felt sense of relational energy, inclusive and centrist.

• Edwin and Daniel discuss the concept of an empathy field that connects people and changes their state.

Challenges in Defining Empathy

• Jenna shares insights from Barbara Frederickson's book "Love 2.0," which defines love as micro moments of positivity resonance.

• Edwin reflects on how the empathy circle builds love through micro moments of empathic connection.

• The group discusses the need for a clear and practical definition of empathy that can be used by everyone.

• Edwin emphasizes the importance of mapping definitions onto the empathy circle to add clarity.

Imaginative Empathy vs. Direct Empathy

• Violetta introduces herself and discusses her research on empathy, focusing on phenomenological and cultural differences.

• Violetta argues that imaginative empathy is the core of basic empathy and should be central in the holistic empathy model.

• Edwin and Daniel discuss the challenges of defining imagination and the importance of direct empathy.

• The group explores the idea of using reflective listening as a microdose of empathy.

Empathy and Cultural Values

• Jenna suggests simplifying the definition of empathy to avoid confusion and negative connotations.

• The group discusses the importance of making empathy a cultural and personal value.

• Edwin shares his experience of using empathy circles with conservatives and the positive impact it has.

• The group emphasizes the need for a clear and practical definition of empathy that can be understood and used by everyone.

Addressing Criticisms of Empathy

• Edwin discusses the confusion caused by recent books that criticize empathy, such as "Against Empathy" and "The Sin of Empathy."

• The group agrees on the importance of responding to these criticisms and clarifying the true meaning of empathy.

• Edwin mentions his efforts to reach out to authors of these books to discuss their criticisms and empathize with their perspectives.

• The group discusses the need for a comprehensive response to these criticisms and the importance of maintaining the integrity of the empathy movement.

Empathy and Political Polarization

• Violetta highlights the political weaponization of empathy and the need to bridge polarization.

• The group discusses the importance of clear communication and a unified message about empathy.

• Edwin emphasizes the need for a clear and practical definition of empathy that can be used to build bridges across political divides.

• The group agrees on the importance of maintaining the ethical and value-based nature of the empathy movement.

Final Thoughts and Next Steps

• The group reflects on the importance of simplifying the definition of empathy and making it accessible to everyone.

• Edwin suggests continuing the discussion and refining the holistic empathy model.

• The group agrees to meet regularly to work on the definition project and address the challenges discussed.

• Edwin emphasizes the importance of mapping definitions onto the empathy circle and creating educational materials to support the empathy movement.

Discussion on Empathy and Imagination

• Speaker 5 discusses the role of imagination in empathy, suggesting that empathy cannot exist without imagination.

• Edwin Rutsch and Speaker 5 recall interactions with Jamal Zaki, with Edwin expressing skepticism about Zaki's willingness to engage in conversations.

• Speaker 2 compares the use of imagination to Buddhist concepts, emphasizing the importance of non-physical experiences.

• Edwin Rutsch mentions his multiple attempts to interview Zaki, who consistently declined to participate.

Zaki's Contributions and Social Psychology

• Speaker 5 highlights Zaki's work with Adam Grant and Jonathan Haidt on empathy, noting their efforts to create a movement on campuses.

• Zaki's book "Hope for the Cynics" is mentioned, focusing on empathy as a way to combat depression and isolation.

• Edwin Rutsch expresses frustration over Zaki's unresponsiveness and skepticism about his contributions to empathy.

• Speaker 5 suggests that Zaki's young age and insecurity might have influenced his behavior, noting his growing influence in the empathy movement.

Zaki's Influence and Academic Elitism

• Edwin Rutsch shares his experience with Zaki's elitist attitude, feeling that Zaki and his associates are disconnected from the broader empathy movement.

• Speaker 5 and Edwin discuss the elitist culture in academia, particularly at institutions like Berkeley and Stanford, and its impact on empathy.

• Edwin mentions an article in Scientific America that featured their work, highlighting the broader recognition of their efforts.

• Daniel Hirtz emphasizes the need for a simple, clear definition of empathy to dissolve confusion and gain momentum for an empathic culture.

Defining Empathy and Academic Perspectives

• Speaker 5 argues that defining empathy requires academic rigor and training, suggesting that Zaki's approach aligns with their own.

• Edwin Rutsch criticizes the fragmented nature of academic definitions of empathy, preferring a practical, accessible approach.

• Speaker 5 and Edwin discuss the importance of Rogers' definition of empathy as a foundation for their work.

• Edwin highlights the practical application of empathy circles, which can bridge gaps between different political and social groups.

Challenges in Defining Empathy

• Speaker 5 emphasizes the complexity of defining empathy, suggesting that clarity emerges from extensive, confusing work.

• Edwin Rutsch agrees, noting the need for a clear, communicable definition rooted in Rogers' work.

• Speaker 5 argues that the empathy circle is a tool to teach and explain empathy, but the definition should remain grounded in Rogers' framework.

• Edwin Rutsch and Speaker 5 discuss the importance of inclusive definitions of empathy, rejecting exclusivity in favor of open, empathic connections.

Empathy Circles and Inclusive Definitions

• Daniel Hirtz suggests that the inclusivity of empathy circles is a key aspect of their definition, contrasting it with more exclusive definitions.

• Edwin Rutsch discusses the potential for empathy circles to address issues like immigration, bringing all stakeholders together for a mutually empathic dialog.

• Speaker 5 mentions the Constructive Dialog Institute's use of similar methods, suggesting potential collaboration.

• Edwin Rutsch outlines their strategy of reaching out to various organizations and individuals to share their tools and support empathy efforts.

Future Plans and Collaboration

• Edwin Rutsch and Speaker 5 discuss plans for upcoming empathy summits and conferences, including a global conference in Santa Cruz.

• Edwin Rutsch plans to present on the definition of empathy and the empathy circle at the conference.

• Speaker 5 expresses interest in participating in future events and possibly presenting on their experiences with family empathy circles.

• Edwin Rutsch emphasizes the need to build a movement for empathy, encouraging collaboration and shared efforts to promote empathy globally.