https://otter.ai/u/y8M4KOLYeN7ZIXO3Kojicu6mAWI?view=summary
Edwin Rutsch presented the latest iteration of the holistic empathy model, emphasizing its application in empathy circles. The model includes basic empathy, self-empathy, imaginative empathy, and holistic empathy. Rutsch criticized traditional cognitive-affective models for their abstractness and lack of consensus. He highlighted the benefits of empathy, such as stronger relationships and conflict resolution, and addressed criticisms like "toxic empathy" and "suicidal empathy." Rutsch proposed using empathy circles to ground empathy definitions and address criticisms. Jodie Jenson suggested incorporating practical applications and strategies for influencing group dynamics.
[ ] @Edwin Rutsch - Analyze your personal definition of empathy and map it onto the empathy circle.
[ ] @Edwin Rutsch - Compare other definitions of empathy (e.g. "cognitive empathy", "affective empathy") to the holistic empathy model and the empathy circle.
[ ] @Edwin Rutsch - Address criticisms of empathy (e.g. "suicidal empathy", "toxic empathy") using the holistic empathy model.
[ ] Discuss ideas for expanding the training on holistic empathy, including connecting it to influencing group dynamics and inviting critics to participate in the empathy circle.
Edwin Rutsch introduces the empathy circle definition, emphasizing its iterative nature and its application at the University of California, Berkeley.
The mission of the empathy movement is to make mutual empathy a core cultural value, aiming to teach empathy circles to all 8 billion people globally.
Benefits of empathy include stronger relationships, improved teamwork, effective leadership, better conflict resolution, and increased personal and social well-being.
Criticisms of empathy include "suicidal empathy," "toxic empathy," and "against empathy," highlighting concerns about empathy's directionality and potential for violence.
Edwin Rutsch discusses various books and academic criticisms of empathy, including "The Dark Sides of Empathy" and "The Sin of Empathy."
He mentions a Senate discussion on empathy during Barack Obama's Supreme Court justice selection, where the nature of empathy was debated.
Kevin Waltman's article "The Dangerous Consequences of Radical Empathy Unchecked by Reason" is cited, criticizing empathy's radical form for prioritizing victims over truth and reason.
Edwin Rutsch reached out to authors of these books for discussions on empathy, with only Kevin Waltman agreeing to a conversation.
Edwin Rutsch introduces the holistic empathy model, which includes basic empathy (self, imaginative, and holistic), grounded in the empathy circle.
The empathy circle involves 4-6 participants with different roles: speaker, active listener, and silent listeners, facilitating deep listening and reflection.
Basic empathy involves deep listening to another person's whole being, including their thoughts, feelings, and non-verbal cues.
Self empathy involves sensing into one's own visceral experiences, supported by the empathy circle's reflective process.
Imaginative empathy involves role-playing and perspective-taking, often used in conflict mediation training scenarios.
Holistic empathy refers to the quality and level of empathy in a relationship or group, raising the overall empathy level through mutual listening.
Edwin Rutsch emphasizes the importance of a clear and practical definition of empathy to address criticisms and confusion.
The holistic empathy model aims to provide a more effective and relational understanding of empathy, contrasting with the abstract and dry academic models.
Edwin Rutsch compares the holistic empathy model to the common cognitive-affective empathy model, highlighting its limitations and contradictions.
The cognitive empathy model includes understanding, perspective-taking, and emotional sharing, but lacks a clear definition and agreement among academics.
Edwin Rutsch argues that the holistic empathy model offers a more comprehensive and relational view of empathy, grounded in practical experience.
The discussion includes strategies for addressing criticisms of empathy, such as victimization and emotional reactions, by integrating them into the holistic empathy model.
Jodie Jenson appreciates the visual aids and the integration of other empathy definitions into the holistic empathy model.
The conversation touches on the potential for a longer training program, incorporating more discussion and research on empathy.
Jodie Jenson suggests focusing on the practical benefits of imaginative empathy and the power of influencing group dynamics through empathy.
Edwin Rutsch and Jodie Jenson discuss the importance of continuous iteration and refinement of the holistic empathy model, including addressing criticisms and improving the training content.
Zoom - Meeting summary for Edwin Rutsch's Personal Meeting Room (06/17/2025)
Edwin presented a comprehensive overview of empathy, discussing its evolving definition, various types, and applications in the context of empathy circles. He introduced a holistic empathy model and explored the components of cognitive empathy, emphasizing the importance of active listening and non-judgmental understanding. The presentation also addressed criticisms of empathy and discussed strategies for improving group dynamics through empathic practices, with Jodie providing feedback and suggestions for further development of the training material.
Edwin to continue refining and iterating on the holistic empathy model presentation
Edwin to add a section addressing criticisms of empathy to the presentation
Jodie to prepare ideas and an outline for complementary content to add to the training
Edwin and Jodie to discuss Jodie's research and ideas at their next meeting
Edwin to explore ways to emphasize how reflecting back can change group dynamics in empathy circles
Edwin presented a slideshow on the evolving definition of empathy in the context of empathy circles, highlighting their benefits and recent criticisms. He discussed various books and articles that question the role of empathy, including "Suicidal Empathy," "Toxic Empathy," and "The Sin of Empathy," noting that authors were generally unwilling to engage in discussions about empathy. Edwin emphasized the importance of mutual empathy in improving culture and society, while acknowledging the need for clearer articulation of empathy's definition and role.
Edwin discussed the importance of having a clear and practical definition of empathy to address confusion and criticisms. He introduced a holistic empathy model consisting of self-empathy, imaginative empathy, and holistic empathy, which he plans to explain in detail during his presentation. Edwin emphasized the value of grounding empathy definitions in the context of empathy circles, making the experience concrete and allowing for a visceral understanding of the concept. He also suggested using empathy circles to map and compare different definitions and criticisms of empathy.
Edwin explained the process of active listening, which involves a speaker sharing ideas, followed by a 45-second to one-minute pause where an active listener reflects back their understanding without judgment. The process continues with timed speaking turns, where the active listener becomes the speaker and selects a silent listener to become the new active listener. Edwin described this as a form of holistic empathy, inspired by Carl Rogers' therapeutic approach, where the listener senses and connects with the speaker's emotions and thoughts in a deep, non-judgmental way.
Edwin discussed the concept of empathy, distinguishing between basic empathy and self-empathy, and introduced the idea of imaginative empathy. He explained that empathy involves deep, non-judgmental listening to another person's experiences, allowing the listener to support the speaker in exploring their own feelings. Edwin also described how empathy circles can be used for conflict mediation, using a training exercise involving siblings in conflict over inheritance to demonstrate this application.
Edwin explained the different types of empathy, including basic empathy, imaginative empathy, and holistic empathy. He used examples from acting, such as Meryl Streep's roles, to illustrate imaginative empathy. Edwin also described how empathy circles can raise the quality and level of empathy in a group, aiming to create a culture of empathy in society.
Edwin discussed the components of holistic empathy, which includes basic empathy, self-empathy, imaginative empathy, and community empathy. He outlined qualities of holistic empathy such as openness, care, presence, non-judgmental attitude, curiosity, and mutuality. Edwin invited others to compare their definitions of empathy to the holistic empathy model and address criticisms of the cognitive-affective empathy model, which he finds problematic due to its separation of feeling and reason, individualistic viewpoint, and lack of consensus on its components.
Edwin discussed the components of cognitive empathy, focusing on understanding, imagining, and perspective-taking. He explained that understanding involves creating a map of another person's internal state, while imagining and perspective-taking involve imagining how another person is thinking and feeling. Edwin noted that imaginative empathy, while useful, may not always be accurate, unlike basic empathy which relies on sensing into the other person's experience.
Edwin discussed the complexities of empathy, distinguishing between basic empathy, affective empathy, and empathic concern. He explained that basic empathy involves listening and reflecting, while affective empathy includes emotional sharing and reactions such as personal distress or concern. Edwin noted that emotional contagion and state matching can sometimes be confused with empathy but are not the same. He emphasized the need for further research to clarify these concepts and their implications for understanding empathy.
Edwin explained different types of reactions to someone's distress, distinguishing between personal distress, empathic concern, and sympathy. He emphasized that effective empathy involves staying present with the person and listening deeply, rather than letting reactions like personal distress or sympathy overshadow the situation. Jodie provided positive feedback on Edwin's visuals and suggested expanding the training to include more discussion and additional research findings, which they would discuss further in the next meeting.
Edwin and Jodie discussed the concepts of basic and imaginative empathy, emphasizing that imaginative empathy builds on basic empathy but can be prone to projection. They explored the idea of shifting group dynamics through empathy, highlighting its potential to influence and transform hostile or divided groups. Jodie suggested incorporating practical strategies for shifting group energy and addressing criticisms of empathy, such as the concern that it leads to victimization. They agreed on the importance of clarifying these misconceptions and creating a structured approach to analyze and address criticisms of empathy. Jodie planned to prepare an outline for their next discussion to further refine their ideas.