https://otter.ai/u/5k5VJOWwtcwJpp7lotI3FNM8kpA?view=summary
Edwin Rutsch and Jodie Jenson discuss the complexities of empathy, particularly in conflict situations. They emphasize the importance of empathy as a core value, suggesting it's biologically wired into humans. Edwin advocates for empathy circles as a means to foster mutual understanding and reduce conflict. Jodie proposes a four-week training program to define and explore empathy, starting with personal definitions and moving to philosophical and experiential approaches. They highlight the need for careful selection of images to avoid triggering participants and stress the importance of active listening and reflective practices in empathy training.
[ ] @Edwin Rutsch - Explore creating a centralized system for conflict mediation and resolution that utilizes empathy-based facilitation.
[ ] Develop a training program on empathy that covers definitions, blocks to empathy, philosophical approaches, and practical applications.
[ ] Identify appropriate images/visuals to use in the empathy training that can elicit emotional connection without triggering participants.
[ ] Discuss the empathy training program further and make any necessary adjustments in the next meeting.
Edwin Rutsch discusses the conflict between values, particularly empathy and protection, using the example of a Muslim converting to Christianity in a country where such a conversion could result in death.
Jodie Jenson agrees with Edwin's summary and asks for his perspective on the matter.
Edwin emphasizes empathy as a core value, suggesting that shared empathy can lead to deeper understanding and resolution of conflicts.
Edwin argues that empathy is a biological need, similar to the need to breathe, and that it can be supported or suppressed by cultural and social structures.
Edwin explains that empathy is a capacity that can be supported or suppressed, and he advocates for a society and culture based on mutual empathy.
He describes the "empathy circle" as a minimal viable social structure that supports empathy.
Edwin shares his approach to conflict situations, emphasizing empathy over authoritarianism and the importance of active listening.
He suggests that empathy training should be integrated into various social structures, including jails, to foster empathy skills.
Jodie Jenson raises the issue of in-group versus out-group dynamics as a potential block to empathy.
Edwin acknowledges the problem and suggests that the lack of empathy is often due to individuals shutting down their empathy rather than a problem with empathy itself.
They discuss the importance of bridging out-group dynamics to achieve holistic empathy.
Jodie mentions her need to leave early to pick up her twins from school and shares her work on restorative empathy circles.
Edwin describes a mediation process he used with a group in conflict, involving pre-circle sessions with individuals to understand their concerns.
He explains the use of active listening and reflecting back what he hears to model empathy.
Edwin shares the success of the empathy circle in resolving the conflict and solving the problem.
He also mentions using empathy circles with pro-life and pro-choice groups to facilitate understanding and resolution.
Jodie asks if Edwin's approach to conflict resolution could be applied to other situations, such as board meetings.
Edwin agrees and suggests a structured approach with a place for conflict mediation registration.
They discuss the need for trained conflict resolution facilitators with more depth of experience than just facilitating empathy circles.
Edwin emphasizes the importance of not getting triggered or upset as a facilitator to maintain effectiveness.
Jodie outlines the structure of the training, starting with definitions of empathy in week one.
She plans to discuss blocks to empathy in week two, philosophical and experiential approaches in week three, and practical applications in week four.
Jodie shares her initial outline for week one, focusing on definitions and the importance of understanding different perspectives.
They discuss the need for ground rules to ensure respectful and balanced discussions.
Jodie describes an interactive introduction activity to help participants get to know each other.
She introduces a training model called "peeling the onion" to gradually deepen the discussion from surface-level observations to deeper emotional and philosophical levels.
They discuss the importance of starting with non-threatening, surface-level observations to build trust and comfort.
Jodie shares her experience using this model in various settings, including literacy training in rural Africa.
Jodie and Edwin discuss the importance of connecting personal experiences to the discussion of empathy.
They share their own experiences of grief and how it affects them physically and emotionally.
Jodie emphasizes the need for participants to connect with their own lived experiences to deepen their understanding of empathy.
They discuss the potential triggers of certain images and the importance of choosing appropriate visual aids for the training.
Jodie plans to have participants write down their definitions of empathy to get a baseline understanding.
They discuss the variety of definitions and the criticisms of empathy, such as the in-group vs. out-group dynamics.
Jodie suggests breaking into small groups to discuss the pros and cons of different definitions and how they align with personal experiences.
They plan to bring the group back together to share insights and connect them to the broader discussion of empathy.
Jodie outlines the goal of the training to connect participants' internal feelings and thoughts with the group's discussion.
They discuss the importance of having a clear definition of empathy to move forward with creating an empathy movement.
Jodie suggests homework assignments to reinforce the learning between sessions.
Edwin expresses his support for the idea and looks forward to continuing the discussion in future sessions.
Meeting summary for Edwin Rutsch's Personal Meeting Room (06/24/2025)
Edwin and Jodie explored the concept of empathy as a core value, discussing its potential in conflict resolution and societal systems through methods like Restorative Empathy Circles. They developed a four-week training outline on empathy, emphasizing experiential learning and the importance of connecting deeply with others' emotions. The pair also discussed practical aspects of implementing empathy training, including selecting appropriate visual aids and structuring sessions to facilitate meaningful conversations.
Jodie to continue working on developing the other weeks of the empathy training curriculum.
Jodie to share the document link with Edwin for the training outline.
Edwin and Jodie to discuss the training curriculum further in next week's meeting.
Edwin and Jodie discussed the challenges and potential of empathy as a core value, particularly in conflict situations. Edwin emphasized the biological capacity for empathy and its importance in fostering shared values and understanding, while acknowledging the existence of authoritarian mindsets that may conflict with empathic approaches. They explored how empathy can be strengthened through social structures like the empathy circle and how it could be integrated into societal systems, including even in correctional settings. Jodie raised concerns about empathy being limited by in-group versus out-group dynamics, which Edwin countered by highlighting the need for mutual empathy and addressing the underlying reasons for lack of empathy in others.
Edwin shared his experience with Restorative Empathy Circles, describing how he facilitates conflict resolution by first listening individually to all parties involved, providing them with an "empathy bath" through active listening, and then bringing them together to work through their conflict. He explained that this approach has been successful in resolving conflicts between groups like pro-life and pro-choice activists. Jodie expressed interest in this method and asked if Edwin had discussed using a similar structure with the board for future conflict resolution. Edwin replied that he envisioned creating a structured approach with trained facilitators to help mediate conflicts in the community.
Jodie presented a four-week training outline on empathy, with week one focusing on definitions and ground rules. She explained the structure of each session, including activities, goals, and time allocation, aiming for a total of 120 minutes over four 2-hour sessions. Jodie introduced a "peel the onion" training model to facilitate discussions, starting with simple, relatable topics before delving into more complex issues. She emphasized the importance of balancing lecture and discussion time, managing group dynamics, and providing support for participants who may be triggered by sensitive topics.
Edwin and Jodie discussed a scene involving a father in grief after a bombing incident, focusing on his emotional state and physical reactions. Edwin described the father as overwhelmed with grief and possibly feeling hopeless, while Jodie explored the visceral sensations of grief, with Edwin comparing it to a flooding emotion that breaks one's normal state and manifests as tearfulness. Jodie shared her experience of grief as a heavy weight that can suddenly overcome her, causing her to pause and process the emotion.
Jodie and Edwin discussed the importance of experiencing empathy through training exercises, emphasizing the need to connect deeply with the subject and others. Jodie explained that the goal is to help participants feel and understand empathy, rather than rushing to solutions, and she expressed her own emotional connection to the training process. They agreed to focus on defining empathy later, after allowing participants to experience it firsthand.
Jodie and Edwin discussed the importance of selecting an appropriate image for their empathy-focused project, emphasizing the need to avoid triggering political or sensitive responses. They explored different visual options and agreed on the importance of connecting people to raw human experiences while maintaining a safe environment for discussion. Jodie outlined a plan for their upcoming sessions, including defining empathy, discussing various academic and personal experiences, and using a "peeling the onion" model to facilitate deeper conversations. They agreed to continue their work in the next session and to share resources for further planning.