Zoom Meeting summary for Edwin Rutsch's Personal Meeting Room (07/15/2025)
Edwin and Gregory, a director and postdoctoral fellow respectively, discussed their work on empathy and explored various definitions and perspectives on the concept, emphasizing its interpersonal and relational aspects. They shared insights on empathy circles as a structured group format for exploring emotions and experiences, while also discussing the relationship between empathy, compassion, and emotional responses. The conversation concluded with a discussion of empathy's potential biases and its role in building community relationships, along with plans for future collaboration through empathy circles and research initiatives.
Edwin: Organize and schedule an Empathy Circle session that works with Gregory's availability
Gregory: Participate in an upcoming Empathy Circle session with Edwin and Jodi
Gregory: Consider being a speaker at the upcoming Empathy Summit series on "How to build the empathy movement
Gregory: Explore potential collaboration opportunities to conduct research studies on the Empathy Circle practice
Edwin: Connect with Gregory's team at UC San Diego to potentially organize Empathy Circle sessions for their group
Edwin, the director of the Empathy Center, and Gregory, a postdoctoral fellow at the University of California, San Diego, discussed their work on empathy. They shared their definitions and perspectives on empathy, emphasizing its interpersonal and relational aspects. Gregory highlighted the importance of understanding how empathy is received and regulated, while Edwin focused on developing a holistic definition of empathy that includes self-empathy and challenges the traditional cognitive-affective model. They agreed on the value of mutual empathy and the need to consider the context and outcomes of empathy in different situations.
Edwin described the empathy circle, a structured group format involving active listening and turn-taking, which creates space for participants to explore their emotions and experiences. He distinguished between basic empathy (sensing into someone's experience) and imaginative empathy (cognitive empathy), while Gregory highlighted the importance of perspective-taking and curiosity in understanding others' emotions. They discussed how these concepts overlap in real-world experiences and how different terms and definitions can be useful at various levels of analysis.
Gregory and Edwin discussed the relationship between empathy, compassion, and emotional responses. Gregory shared his research findings on how sharing positive emotions can be beneficial for both the empathizer and the target, while focusing on compassion for negative emotions can be protective for the empathizer. Edwin emphasized the importance of active listening and presence in empathy, comparing it to "microdosing love." They also discussed the potential for the empathy circle to build internal resilience and foster understanding in conflict situations.
Edwin shared his experience with Jodi, who was feeling anxious due to a family conflict involving a murder. He mentioned that they discussed the possibility of an empathy circle to help Jodi manage her anxiety. Gregory provided insights on the importance of nonjudgmental listening, validation, and understanding in empathy circles, emphasizing their potential to foster perceived partner responsiveness and reduce animosity across political divides. They discussed the effectiveness of empathetic approaches in promoting mutual understanding and persuasive communication.
Edwin and Gregory discussed the nature of empathy, with Edwin emphasizing that empathy is a mutual, holistic relationship among people in a community, rather than an individualistic, one-sided emotion. They explored how empathy can be biased but argued that the problem lies in bias, not empathy itself. Edwin also distinguished between affective empathy, which includes emotion sharing and personal distress, and effective empathy, which involves staying present with others while reflecting their emotions without becoming overwhelmed. Gregory agreed with this distinction and highlighted the importance of regulating emotion sharing based on the valence of the emotion.
Gregory discussed his research on empathy, focusing on the receiver's perspective and the effectiveness of AI-generated empathic responses compared to human ones. He explained that while people prefer human responses, AI can sometimes provide better support than no response at all. Gregory shared his findings on the importance of compassion and emotion sharing in empathic interactions and outlined his future research directions, including interventions to improve wise empathy among medical practitioners and youth on social media. Edwin mentioned the positive impact of empathy circles and their role in building a broader empathy movement, inviting Gregory to speak at upcoming events.
Edwin and Gregory discussed the concept of empathy, particularly focusing on criticisms and misconceptions surrounding it. Edwin explained his work on defining and implementing empathy through empathy circles, which he sees as a way to break the victim-perpetrator dynamic and promote understanding between conflicting parties. They explored how empathy can sometimes lead to polarization and how it can be used in political mediation. Gregory expressed interest in participating in an empathy circle and agreed to follow up with Edwin to coordinate a time that works for both of them.
https://otter.ai/u/bFpqbS52Ob9clbfjRm0h6H3623Q?view=summary
Edwin Rutsch and Craig discussed their work on empathy, emphasizing mutual empathy as a cultural value. Edwin highlighted the Empathy Center's projects, including the Empathy Circle, which fosters active listening and mutual empathy. Craig focused on wise empathy, integrating morally grounded socio-emotional problem-solving. They explored definitions of empathy, stressing its interpersonal nature and the importance of self-empathy. Craig's research showed that empathy often involves sharing emotions, perspective-taking, and compassion, with positive emotions more common than negative ones. They also discussed the potential of AI in empathy and the need for interventions to improve empathy in medical settings. Greg Depow and Edwin Rutsch discussed the challenges and benefits of empathy, particularly the holistic empathy model. Edwin shared positive feedback on his model and sought further criticisms. Greg emphasized the importance of a clear, consistent definition of empathy and highlighted the practical utility of the holistic approach. They also touched on the complexities of defining and measuring empathy in academic settings. Edwin proposed organizing empathy circles, which he believes can significantly impact individuals' lives, and Greg expressed interest in collaborating, mentioning support from the Sanford Center for Empathy and Compassion.
[ ] Explore opportunities for the speaker to present or discuss their work on the empathy movement that Rutsch is building.
[ ] Participate in an empathy circle session with Rutsch and others.
Edwin Rutsch introduces himself as the director of the Empathy Center, working on empathy for 15 years, focusing on practitioner-based empathy rather than academic.
Edwin describes the Empathy Center's mission to build an empathy movement, emphasizing mutual empathy as a primary cultural and social value.
Edwin shares various projects and initiatives, including hundreds of interviews, the Empathy Circle practice, and the Empathy Tent for public listening.
Craig introduces himself as a postdoctoral fellow at the University of California, San Diego, working on empathy since 2018, focusing on wise empathy, which involves morally grounded excellence in socio-emotional problem-solving.
Craig discusses his definition of empathy as the process of understanding, sharing, and caring about the emotions of others, emphasizing the interpersonal focus.
Craig highlights the three components of empathy: affective emotion sharing, cognitive perspective-taking, and motivational compassion.
Craig mentions the importance of interpersonal empathy in contexts like therapy and conversations, and the need for more academic work on relational empathy.
Craig notes the overlap between his work on wise empathy and Edwin's work on holistic empathy and Empathy Circles.
Edwin explains his holistic empathy definition, which includes the relational aspect of empathy, building on Carl Rogers' therapeutic model.
Edwin describes the Empathy Circle, a group practice where participants take turns sharing and reflecting on their emotions, fostering mutual empathy.
Edwin emphasizes the importance of active listening and mutual empathy in the Empathy Circle, which helps create a supportive and empathic environment.
Edwin criticizes the affective and cognitive empathy model, finding it too simplistic and confusing for laypeople.
Craig discusses the importance of self-empathy and self-compassion, noting that self-empathy involves gaining insight into one's own emotions through being listened to.
Craig explains the difference between self-compassion and self-empathy, highlighting the role of self-empathy in understanding one's own emotions.
Craig shares data showing that people often experience all three components of empathy (emotion sharing, perspective-taking, compassion) simultaneously.
Craig emphasizes the importance of regulating emotion sharing, especially when dealing with negative emotions, to avoid personal distress.
Craig discusses the therapeutic relationship as a special case of empathy, where the therapist's role is to resolve the client's concerns.
Craig notes that most relationships are more bi-directional and less one-sided, unlike the therapeutic relationship.
Craig shares data showing that people often engage with positive emotions more frequently than negative emotions, and that positive emotion sharing is generally beneficial.
Craig emphasizes the importance of focusing on compassion for negative emotions and feeling what others feel for positive emotions, while maintaining a focus on the other person.
Edwin describes the Empathy Circle in detail, including the structure, turn-taking, and active listening practices.
Edwin explains how the Empathy Circle helps create a supportive and empathic environment, fostering mutual understanding and care.
Edwin shares examples of how the Empathy Circle has been used in conflict mediation and political contexts, leading to positive outcomes like increased connection and understanding.
Edwin emphasizes the importance of mutual empathy in the Empathy Circle, where everyone listens to and empathizes with each other, creating a sense of community and support.
Edwin discusses the challenges and criticisms of empathy, including the individualistic definition that can lead to empathy deficits.
Edwin explains how the mutuality of empathy in the Empathy Circle addresses these challenges, creating a more holistic and effective form of empathy.
Edwin shares examples of how the Empathy Circle has been used to address criticisms and misconceptions about empathy, such as the victim-perpetrator dynamic.
Edwin emphasizes the importance of spreading the Empathy Circle and holistic empathy definition to address these challenges and improve empathy in society.
Craig discusses the role of AI in empathy, noting that AI can generate empathic-sounding responses but lacks the interpersonal experience of humans.
Craig shares data showing that people prefer human responses over AI responses, despite AI's ability to generate empathic text.
Craig explains the differences between text and in-person communication, noting that in-person communication is more effective in fostering empathy.
Craig emphasizes the importance of understanding how AI can be used to support empathy, while recognizing the limitations of AI in replacing human empathy.
Craig outlines his future research directions, including interventions to improve wise empathy and studies on the receiver's experience of empathy.
Craig discusses the potential benefits of wise empathy interventions for medical practitioners, aiming to reduce burnout and improve well-being.
Craig shares his plans to study the effects of wise empathy interventions on the target of empathy, to ensure that they benefit from these interventions.
Craig emphasizes the importance of bridging the relationships literature and empathy literature to better understand and support empathy in various contexts.
Edwin discusses the Empathy Summit, which brings together people to share their experiences with the Empathy Circle and its impact on their lives.
Edwin shares examples of how the Empathy Circle has changed people's lives, including a student who started an empathy class at UC Berkeley.
Edwin emphasizes the goal of teaching everyone how to take part in an Empathy Circle, making mutual empathy a cultural value.
Edwin highlights the importance of addressing criticisms of empathy and spreading the holistic empathy definition to build a stronger empathy movement.
Speaker 1 discusses the discomfort some people feel when taking on other people's perspectives, as it might make them question their own actions and thoughts.
Edwin Rutsch mentions an upcoming empathy circle and introduces Jodi, who is working on her PhD on empathy at BYU.
Speaker 1 expresses interest in participating in future empathy circles but is unsure about availability for the next one.
Edwin Rutsch shares his positive feedback on the holistic empathy model and seeks criticisms to refine it further.
Speaker 1 acknowledges the importance of defining empathy but suggests that the construct and definition provided by Edwin Rutsch are useful and practical.
The conversation touches on the interpersonal and scientific utility of the holistic empathy perspective, which addresses blind spots in existing empathy literature.
Speaker 1 highlights the complexity of defining and measuring empathy in academic work, often leading to inconsistencies in its application.
Edwin Rutsch shares insights from Dan Batson, emphasizing the need for clarity in defining empathy and sticking to it consistently.
Edwin Rutsch describes empathy circles as a gateway practice that can significantly impact individuals' lives by fostering an empathic mindset.
The discussion includes the potential benefits of empathy circles for personal and professional development, as well as their practical applications in various settings.
Speaker 1 agrees that empathy circles are a great starting point for moving the field of empathy forward in positive ways.
Edwin Rutsch expresses interest in exploring the topic further with others and invites Speaker 1 to participate in future empathy circles.
Edwin Rutsch mentions the San Diego center supporting Speaker 1's work and suggests organizing empathy circles with Speaker 1's group.
Speaker 1 confirms the support from the Sanford center and expresses interest in collaborating on empathy circles.
The conversation concludes with mutual appreciation and plans to organize future discussions and empathy circles.
Both participants express their gratitude for the discussion and look forward to future collaborations.