https://otter.ai/u/crpYWi76sp-L7Kq_FIr8Sv3oA4Y?view=summary
Jodie Jenson and Edwin Rutsch discussed technical issues with microphone settings and Jodie's need to leave early due to scheduling conflicts. They reviewed Edwin's upcoming interview with Greg Depot and his work on the holistic empathy definition model. Jodie shared her experience at Darryl Cameron's expanding empathy conference and her struggles with anxiety. They proposed an empathy circle meeting to discuss personal anxieties and stress, inviting a therapist friend for insights. They debated the affective and cognitive empathy model, advocating for a clear definition of empathy to avoid confusion and emphasize practical applications.
[ ] Schedule an "empathy circle" session for next week.
[ ] Invite a therapist friend to participate in the empathy circle.
[ ] Reach out to the professor of the "Cognitive and Affective Processes" class to get their insights on the separation of cognitive and affective empathy.
Jodie Jenson and Edwin Rutsch discuss technical issues with microphone settings, including adjusting automatically or manually.
Jodie mentions needing to leave at 10:45 AM due to scheduling conflicts and challenges in managing multiple projects.
Edwin shares his upcoming interview with Greg Depot and his interest in stress-testing the holistic empathy definition model.
Jodie talks about attending Darryl Cameron's expanding empathy conference, which focused on political dialog and empathy.
Jodie mentions Darryl Cameron's expanding empathy conference, which was political in focus and streamed on Zoom.
Edwin discusses the annual expanding empathy series by Darryl Cameron and the importance of understanding the criticisms of empathy.
Jodie and Edwin discuss the book "The Dark Side of Empathy" by Fritz Bright and its criticisms of empathy leading to polarization.
Jodie shares her anxiety and panic attacks related to a past murder-suicide incident and the impact of excessive affective empathy on mental health.
Edwin suggests forming an empathy circle for personal support, sharing feelings of anxiety and stress.
Jodie appreciates Edwin's empathic listening skills and the benefits of grounding theoretical discussions in practical experiences.
Edwin proposes an empathy circle meeting next week, focusing on personal experiences and feelings of concern, anxiety, and stress.
Jodie suggests inviting a therapist friend to participate in the empathy circle to explore the benefits of group support versus one-on-one therapy.
Jodie and Edwin discuss the importance of defining empathy clearly and addressing criticisms such as empathy leading to victimhood.
Edwin outlines the structure of the training, starting with the intention to create a culture of empathy and addressing common models like affective and cognitive empathy.
Jodie suggests focusing on the practical aspects of empathy and the importance of maintaining a sense of self while being empathic.
Edwin emphasizes the need for a clear definition of empathy to avoid confusion and ensure practical benefits for participants.
Edwin explains the holistic empathy model, which includes both cognitive and affective aspects, and the importance of maintaining boundaries.
Jodie shares her experience of praying out loud and the benefits of putting words to emotions to better understand them.
Edwin discusses the importance of reflecting emotions in empathy circles to help participants distinguish between their own feelings and those of others.
Jodie suggests reaching out to academic experts for insights on the intertwined nature of affective and cognitive empathy.
Jodie and Edwin discuss the challenges of defining empathy and the need to separate it into different components for clarity.
Edwin mentions the dualistic notion of affective and cognitive empathy and the historical context of its development.
Jodie expresses her frustration with the term "empathy" being used in multiple ways, leading to confusion and ineffective conversations.
Edwin agrees on the importance of having a clear definition and sticking to it to ensure practical benefits and avoid confusion.
Edwin shares feedback from Alyssa, a speaker at the next empathy summit, who found the empathy circle life-changing.
Jodie emphasizes the practical benefits of empathy circles over academic discussions, which have not significantly impacted her life.
Edwin and Jodie agree on the importance of focusing on practical applications of empathy to benefit laypeople.
Jodie proposes inviting a therapist friend to the empathy circle to explore the benefits of group support versus one-on-one therapy.
Jodie and Edwin plan the next empathy circle meeting, focusing on personal experiences and feelings of concern, anxiety, and stress.
Jodie suggests inviting a therapist friend to participate and explore the benefits of group support.
Edwin agrees to invite another person to join the empathy circle and discuss practical experiences and feelings.
Jodie and Edwin agree to continue exploring the practical applications of empathy and the importance of maintaining a clear definition.
Zoom Meeting summary for Edwin Rutsch's Personal Meeting Room (07/15/2025)
In this meeting, Jodie and Edwin discussed project updates, including upcoming interviews and conference attendance, before delving into personal experiences with empathy and mental health. They explored the concept of empathy from various perspectives, including philosophical and psychological viewpoints, and planned the structure of a training course on empathy. The conversation concluded with a discussion on defining empathy and the challenges associated with existing definitions, leading to a proposal for a clear, practical approach in their training materials.
Jodie to invite her therapist friend to join next week's empathy circle session.
Edwin to find one person to invite to next week's empathy circle session.
Jodie to reach out to her cognitive and affective processes professor for insights on why cognitive and affective empathy are separated in literature.
Jodie to add discussion about boundaries and sense of self under the "blocks to empathy" section in the training outline.
Jodie and Edwin to emphasize the clear definition of holistic empathy at the beginning and throughout the training.
Jodie to incorporate quotes from Carl Rogers and Carl Jung into the training material to support their approach to empathy.
Jodie and Edwin discuss technical issues with microphone settings before moving on to project updates. Jodie mentions she hasn't been able to work on the training outline due to time constraints and suggests using this meeting to prioritize training content. Edwin shares that he has an upcoming interview with Greg Depot to stress test the holistic empathy definition model and is seeking feedback from various sources on the concept.
Edwin mentions sending a presentation to Greg, who is now at UC San Diego. Jodie discusses attending Daryl Cameron's conference on expanding empathy, which focused on political dialogue and understanding between different sides of the political spectrum. Edwin has been watching Cameron's yearly expanding empathy series and discusses Fritz Brighthupt's work on the dark side of empathy. They both express interest in further exploring these topics and potentially having another discussion with Daryl Cameron about holistic empathy.
Jodie shares her struggle with anxiety and panic attacks related to a past traumatic event, explaining how excessive empathy during that time compounded her emotional distress. She expresses interest in understanding the potential negative effects of excessive empathy on mental health, despite advocating for more empathy in general. Edwin responds by suggesting empathy circles as a starting point for personal support, emphasizing the importance of having a group to share feelings with regularly. Jodie acknowledges feeling relief from sharing her experience with Edwin, noting the physical sensation of her anxiety dissipating as she talks about it.
Edwin and Jodie agree to hold an empathy circle next week instead of their regular meeting to discuss personal experiences and feelings. They plan to invite one or two additional participants, with Jodie considering inviting her therapist friend to join and provide perspective. The session will last for an hour and a half, focusing on sharing personal concerns and anxieties while exploring the empathy circle as an alternative to one-on-one therapy.
Edwin and Jodie discuss the concept of empathy, referencing ideas from Carl Jung and Carl Rogers. They emphasize the importance of maintaining boundaries and a sense of self while being empathetic. Jodie shares her personal experience with empathy and suggests that the training should clarify the difference between healthy empathy and losing oneself in others' emotions. They agree on the need to incorporate philosophical and psychological perspectives on empathy in their training materials to provide a more comprehensive understanding of the concept.
Jodie and Edwin discuss the structure of a training course on empathy. They consider dedicating week 3 to reevaluating the philosophical underpinnings of empathy and week 4 to discussing boundaries and when to "put a cap" on empathy. Edwin suggests that the topic of boundaries falls under the broader category of "blocks to empathy," which could be explored in depth over multiple weeks. They contemplate extending the discussion on blocks to empathy from one week to two weeks to cover the material more thoroughly.
Edwin outlines a model for creating a culture of empathy, starting with defining terms and addressing criticisms. He suggests breaking down cognitive empathy into perspective-taking and imagination, while noting that it involves understanding emotions without feeling them. Jodie proposes a structure for the training, beginning with participants sharing their definitions of empathy before introducing academic definitions. She also notes that Paul Bloom's rational compassion approach seems to advocate for cognitive empathy and empathic concern without affective empathy.
Edwin discusses his approach to empathetic listening, emphasizing the importance of perceiving the whole person rather than separating cognitive and affective aspects. He questions the academic distinction between cognitive and affective empathy, suggesting that these elements are deeply intertwined and difficult to separate. Jodie agrees with Edwin's perspective and plans to reach out to her professor for further insights on why cognitive and affective processes are often treated as separate in the literature.
Edwin and Jodie discuss the challenges of defining empathy and agree that many existing definitions should be discarded. They propose focusing on a clear, practical definition of empathy for their training, emphasizing its components rather than using the term itself. Jodie suggests that this definition should be the main takeaway from their training, while Edwin highlights the practical benefits of the empathy circle. They plan to continue this discussion in their next meeting and potentially include a new participant.